Ep 30: Here We Go Again…

Sometimes the best-laid plans… fall flat. And when you’re raising a neurodivergent young adult, those pivots can feel like earthquakes.

In this episode, Gwen and Kristen get honest about something big: Rylan is back home from college and the beautiful, carefully supported experience that seemed guaranteed… wasn’t.

This isn’t a story of failure. It’s a story of real parenting: the kind that requires grit, grief, and the courage to start again.

If you’ve ever tasted disappointment after believing things were finally turning a corner… this episode is for you.

In this episode, you’ll learn...

• [00:04:00] The shift from excitement to concern at Beacon College

• [00:05:00] Red flags around how staff responded to Rylan’s Tourette syndrome

• [00:08:00] When supports promised didn’t match supports delivered

• [00:10:00] The reality of still needing to be the executive functioning engine

• [00:13:00] Why bringing Rylan home became the right decision

• [00:17:00] The intense grief spiral that happened afterward

• [00:22:00] The brain dump whiteboard + learning to not fix everything at once

• [00:25:00] Rylan’s self-initiated job applications

• [00:27:00] Recognizing that the real pivot is the parent’s

If you just can't get enough of us, don’t forget to join our newsletter and check out our other projects.

Transcript for "Here We Go Again . . ."

Gwen: [00:00:00] If you have an appreciation for honest and sometimes irreverent conversations about parenting and walking alongside neurodivergent humans, you are in the right place. I'm 

Kristen: Gwen. And I'm Kristin. And together we have decades of experience parenting, fiercely amazing neurodivergent humans. As well as teaching, writing, advocating, and consulting.

All of this has provided us with an endless supply of stories, of inspiring failures and heartbreaking wins. Welcome to Uni. 

Gwen: Wanna hub, right? We promise to come at you each episode as our true selves sharing the hilarity and delight in the midst of the heart of our journeys. You'll also hear directly from our 

Kristen: kids at the end of each episode.

Most importantly, we hope to remind you of your immense value as a human outside of the caretaking role you play. So grab a cozy blanket and a beverage and go hide in a closet near a stew.[00:01:00] 

Gwen: Well, here we are. It's raining here. Kristin, does that symbolize the mood that you're in? 

Kristen: It does it. It really does. I'm in a ring mood. Yeah, but we're coming back for the first time in a while, so we should try and sound slightly cheerful. 

Gwen: Why? I don't know why our audience knows to expect nothing but genuine, authentic conversation from us and genuine Today is.

Hmm. 

Kristen: You know, things are unexpected. That's kind of part of our life, is that we think we've got things going in a direction, and we've got supports and services, and we're all good. And then autism curb, curb plop, curb plop, curb plop. 

Gwen: Well, either that, or in my case, services that are supposed to be magical.

Yeah, and what they say they 

Kristen: [00:02:00] are fall flat 

Gwen: on their faces. 

Kristen: Warning listeners, if something sounds amazing, it's not. It's not. Yeah. Or maybe we should rephrase parts of it. Maybe. Maybe. Or for some people maybe. Yeah, 

Gwen: but mainly it's not, 

Kristen: mainly it's not. Let's stop being cryptic and get into it. Okay, fine.

Alright. So last we left off our young adults were doing a variety of things, uh, one of which is Graham Kaiser has moved into the A DU apartment that we have finished building on our property and he is loving it and he is thriving. He's doing an amazing job. Adulting over there about 50 yards away. 

Gwen: The 50 yards though, feels like five miles, doesn't it?

Some days. Some days. 

Kristen: Some days. But he [00:03:00] just seeing the joy that he is radiating right now and how good he feels about himself and all the ways in which he's motivated to, you know. Practice some skills and it's just been really fun to watch and he deserves that beautiful space and we're really excited and our other two kids are doing great away at college.

So I feel like so many things are going right. One of the things that I'm really struggling with is kind of looking for that job, looking for those opportunities for our autistic young adults to thrive in employment. But more of that at another time because we really need to catch up on what has happened with your adventure to Beacon College.

Gwen: Well, I'll start by saying, Kristen and I recorded a beautiful hour long episode with one of the people that I admire at Beacon College, [00:04:00] and then the next day some things shifted. At Beacon College and as did my opinions and my feelings, and so over the course of the last what month? Yeah. We have unfortunately decided that we weren't gonna air that episode because of some things that went on and some realizations we were having.

And now that episode is just permanently in the crapper. Yeah, because Ryland is no longer a student at Beacon College, and there's so much to that statement, but he has moved back home. My husband and I went for parents weekend and did no parenting weekend activities other than. Emptying his dorm and bringing him out of the cocoon.

He was living in 

Kristen: kind of a [00:05:00] miserable cocoon. And so backing up, we were all real excited about this opportunity and the magical part of it was that there were some supports and services that were stated that made it feel like. There was no way this kid was gonna fail this opportunity. It just, it sounded amazing.

Correct. But the reality was that while he was really excited to go, some things started happening pretty quickly that sent up those red flags. And what were those things? 

Gwen: Well, it started with some key staff not knowing how to acknowledge. Respect and offer dignity to Ryland around his Tourette syndrome.

And that was really shocking and disappointing, and it would've been [00:06:00] workable, but there wasn't the ability to work with the administrative team that there just wasn't an offering for that. And so that was really my first red flag. I 

Kristen: think too that this is an important element to go into a little bit more.

Ryland's ticks are vocal and they're, they've got a good volume to him, right? So he has some ticks, which we all know. And if, if you haven't experienced somebody with Tourette syndrome, it's a neurological condition. These ticks are not something that our loved ones have control over. And the team's response was pretty shocking.

And the, just the lack of understanding around this particular neurological condition and how to support it was the shocking part. Right. And it lacked a lot of dignity. It did in how it was presented to Ryland. 

Gwen: Correct. How it was called out in a [00:07:00] meeting on week two of school that this was something that was concerning, something he needed to work on.

Yeah. I spent like hours on the phone just kind of like sobbing with Kristen about. I just being so confused about, I almost felt gaslighted to myself, like, am I just not remembering what I know to be true? Like I was like, I need you to hear this situation and the story. 'cause I was on the phone for a whole meeting about this, so I was witness to it firsthand and Kristen's like, what the actual f Yeah.

So that helped me and then it just wasn't resolved. At all. There was no conversation offered until parents' weekend, which was three weeks later, which at that point we unfortunately realized that Ryland was not doing great in classes. He was not getting academic supports from [00:08:00] his person who we then met with face to face, and that person was maybe not able to give those supports herself.

He was hiding in his room every night. He was alone. He didn't have any friends. He did not want friends. He was like cocooning himself. He was pretty depressed. You know, he was getting up and going to class every day and maintaining his schedule. Which we were super impressed by and really happy that he was able to do that, and I think that's an encouragement that he someday will live independently and will be able to do that, which is very valuable information.

Kristen: Yeah, I mean, he did a lot of things that were amazing and it wasn't a wasted experience by any stretch, but. I think it just was an example, and I think the reason we really wanted to talk about this today was because of the in incredible grief trigger that it was for you, [00:09:00] Gwen, because Ryland's actually doing great.

Now that he's off, he's, yes. He's kind of driving. So this was a pivot, right? This wasn't a failure, this was a pivot and that's how you guys handled it and you handled it beautifully. And he did not, I don't. Think he saw it as a failure, but I feel like you felt duped and really struggled with this situation, and I wanna hear more about what that felt like for you and why this has been so hard.

Gwen: Yeah. I think when it first started hitting me that. This situation was not the perfect place that I imagined it was. I mean, I didn't even have a thought or a fragment of a thought that this might not work. Yeah. I just, we've been planning for this for like two years financially. [00:10:00] Strategically. He went and did the summer program, which is a very different program, it turns out than the actual school year.

They're very engaged and he did great. So all signs pointed to, yes, this is right, he's ready, he's gonna be amazing, and the supports are gonna be amazing. So the fact that I didn't even have that, like, yes, we're gonna try it. Didn't help me. So that's one of my learnings is perfection isn't a thing. Close to perfection isn't a thing.

You just take what you have and you're gonna work with it. I also thought that I would just be hands off entirely because of the supports that they. Offered, and then it turned out that I had to be involved daily with his management of assignments and his executive functioning and encouraging him to leave his room, encouraging him to not eat pizza and soda at every meal, [00:11:00] which he did.

Talking to him about mental health, getting mental health support on campus. I ended up being his right hand and we were just, I didn't sign up for that. We weren't willing to have him across the country in Florida and pay the exorbitant amount of money and tuition for it to look the same as it has 

Kristen: his whole life.

And I would love if you could get vulnerable for a minute, Gwen, and talk about. Why it meant so much to you that you didn't think you were gonna have to do that. Right. That you were gonna get to be done. And this is a trap I fell into as well and was super mad when I realized how not done I was. No, 

Gwen: not done.

Not done, never done. Yeah. I think the year leading into that, bringing Marez into our family and then adopting Marez, I was so, I. Everything was good and [00:12:00] everybody is good, but I definitely, my mental health definitely was just like fading out of just the sheer necessity of being present and advocating, and I needed that break so desperately, I think, for my actual sanity and so.

I really thought of this as like a compartment like Ryland to Florida. He's gonna be in a, like a box in Florida, like a a little community box, and he's gonna be taken care of and looked out for, and he's going to reach out to me like a normal college kid would, and just check in, want care packages. Like I saw this as he can be a typical college student in this setting.

Mm-hmm. And I thought of it that way. How I would imagine a college kid would be going to college. Yeah. And in some ways maybe he was, 'cause I think a lot of college kids are struggling. But [00:13:00] to have him that far away way and not be able to have eyes on him and his mental health became really scary and disconcerting and.

Then not trusting the people who are supposed to have eyes on him. And it all came to a head really fast and my husband and I just decided we can't even finish the semester. We just have to bring him home. Yeah, it's not worth it. It's not worth trying to help him recover. The longer he's there in a cave, in a cocoon.

So we just took him home and it was abrupt and I had no time to really. Process that I was just so relieved. Like mission, get down there, pack 'em up, take all the turtle stickers off the wall, all the stuffed animals and the nets and the, and the pirate wheel and all that shit just has to come home. [00:14:00] So we just went into logistics mode.

Yeah, I mean, my husband bought a car there. Put all of his shit in the car and now we're shipping the car home. That's how we did it. It's absurd. 

Kristen: And let's just, let's clarify that your husband owns a car dealership. He didn't just buy a car for correct? 

Gwen: Yes. For the heck of it. Yeah. He owns a car dealership, so the car's arriving this week.

Anyway, it worked. We actually had a really lovely time when we were in Florida. Mm-hmm. Um, I got to connect with parents whose kids are struggling just as much as Ryland, who live closer, and so they are doing like multiple a week visits and to help their kids manage. I felt that comradery and I, my soul just felt like a community was there with me and so that really filled me up in a big way, [00:15:00] and I think it did for those parents too.

But then when we got home, the grief just hit pretty hard. It was a pretty, pretty rough couple of weeks I think. My husband would agree. Lots of grief triggers like I haven't felt this. Oh, just like on trying to help and going through my same like, Gwen, what the hell are you doing? Like he doesn't need everything at once, but I don't know how to not do everything at once.

And so I got him a counselor, and I got him his physical trainer back, and I got him back on his basketball team and I found him a new doctor and we had a med evaluation and all of this happened in the first three days he was home. 

Kristen: So you really took my advice of doing nothing for a week or two. I'm so glad.

I mean, we told him he didn't have to do anything 

Gwen: to be fair. To be fair, yeah. I, however, had different instructions [00:16:00] for myself and I followed them. Mm-hmm. And it came to a head. And then our marriage, you know, these are cycles of grief that impact you personally and your relationships. So I worked really hard to make sure the girls didn't feel a big change, but then I had nothing left for my, for my poor husband.

So. Or yourself? 

Kristen: Or myself. Yeah, for sure. So how have you pivoted since this whirlwind of emotional, physical, mental activity? 

Gwen: Well, I pivoted pretty, pretty ugly and it was more like I just like laid on the ground and started like swimming. On in the yard. Concrete, yes. Just hoping to grab things. You know, looking [00:17:00] for birds.

Just, just breaching, praying birds, praying to birds. And then Tim and I had a really long good talk about managing expectations for myself. And for Ryland, and meanwhile, I'm not even noticing that Ryland is like kicking butt. His mood is better than it's been in like the past year. He applied for four jobs this week unprompted.

He is eating like the most healthy, beautiful meals and making them, and he's going to the gym every day. Whoa. Like he's doing his hygiene. Who? This kid is right now, I don't even know, and I'm sure part of it is he's home and probably even though he can't identify his own feelings, he's probably relieved and happy to be home.

I also put him on a new like. Vitamin [00:18:00] let's like crack and the energy. I can see his energy improving from it. It was just one of the other things I researched, you know, best vitamins for autistic young men who are lethargic and low motivation and out it came. Okay, so he's doing really well and I finally looked around like, why am I not doing well?

'cause everyone else in this house is great. The girls have been unaffected. Tim has been unaffected. So I realized finally I'm doing this to myself and there are some triggers, and so now I'm focused on how to find my grounding so that the triggers can just be there without the triggers laying me 

Kristen: flat in the yard.

Right? I think one of the things that we talked about in those first. Days was you said, I don't know how to do this. I don't know how to go back to doing this. [00:19:00] And I was challenging you to not go back to doing that because it's not sustainable. Right? What you were doing that first week is how you are envisioning the rest of eternity being, and you have to find ways to.

Prioritize and back out of some of that feeling like you have to make it all work for him. Yeah, right. Because we get in that place where the other night I couldn't sleep. I'm like, are our kids just turned 22 and is Gram where he needs to be? And I get really spun out and then I have to check in with my husband and be like, am I expecting too much?

And he's like, yeah. Yeah. That's always his answer. Yeah. It's okay that, yes. And remember, not everybody is looking for a certain kind of career, and not everybody is. Well, this was really funny to hear him say, Mr. He defines his entire being by being productive. I think he said [00:20:00] Not everybody is looking to be productive.

I was like, Hmm. We'll have to unpack that later, but Okay. 

Gwen: Well, I mean, he wasn't saying that he doesn't have to be, he just recognizes that not everyone is like 

Kristen: him, right? That not everybody has that same drive or desire, and that Graham is actually thriving in a lot of ways and. To have expectations around work or career when our country is in a real bad way.

Yeah. Have, have y'all met our country lately? Yeah. Have you met her? 'cause she's a hot mess. And so having expectations around job employment availability and people looking to hire people with diversity, I mean, it's just a really hard time and. Yet he's still like Ryland, like he's motivated to go to the gym a couple times a week and he wants to find [00:21:00] things to make for himself in his new apartment to eat.

And he is trying to balance out his time online with other activities. So like in a lot of ways he's thriving and I think redefining what that means. For ourselves too is a big thing because we get so wrapped up in what's happening for our kids that we really make the mistake over and over again. It seems to not pay attention to that, and even if we are paying attention to it, we don't know what to do about it.

We don't know how to do it. 

Gwen: No. We tell ourselves that we don't know how to do it. Two. I think my cognitive load since we got home has been so heavy that I just have had no space to think outside of the situation that he's in. Mm-hmm. And to see that like, whoa, he's 18 years old. Like, slow your roll Gwen.

He's gonna [00:22:00] be fine. He's home now. And it was intense the first week. I mean. Okay. A lot of you understand the intensity of, I mean, day one, he woke up and he's like, all right mom, let's plan my life. And we sat down and I got my whiteboard out and I said, let's do a brain dump. I want you to tell me everything you're thinking and feeling, and I'm just gonna write it all down.

There's no wrong answers. And that is, that is quite the whiteboard. Let me tell you, give us a little peek in what maybe some of those things are. Well, interestingly, romantic relationships was the first thing he said. That's amazing. That's right. That's really cool. So he's in Cool. Interested in thinking about that.

And then second, naturally was glass blowing. 

Kristen: Actually loved that, but it's just a funny list. Right. He's, he's terrified of heat and flame. Yeah. Like scared to make his own food [00:23:00] people. 

Gwen: Correct. Scared to touch the long handle of the pot on 

Kristen: the spot. Thousands degree, right. Tongs near his face with some 

Gwen: bing glass.

This was this, I, I was tempted in that moment to be like, find a video to show him and then I went, Gwen, oh you are, this is just a no. Right? So I didn't say anything, but since then I've had to say. NO to glass blowing A, not finding resources for you. B, you are not gonna do it. There were so many things on that list, like he wants me to find him a Katana sword fighting.

Ring like group of, I don't, I don't know what they, what the language is. What they call 

Kristen: the group of catana fighters, the group of catana fighters. Like a, like a fever of catana fighters or a, a [00:24:00] gaggle of cat fights, a murder of them 

Gwen: perhaps. So he had some really specific. Fun and unreasonable ideas that we put on that list.

And then I texted him a picture and I said, here you go. I'm, I'm gonna do nothing else with this. This is for your own reference. When you decide that you wanna look something up or find something interesting, here you go. So that was big for me. That I didn't photocopy it, laminate it, and start categorizing it.

Right? Yeah. So I was proud of that. But that intensity of that week was that it was, I forgot that I can make decisions on my own. You're here, here's my garbage. Mm-hmm. So we have slowly been working away from that. He did decide he wanted to apply for some jobs, which I was not ready. [00:25:00] To apply for jobs with him, but he does need help with that, with the resume and the cover letter and the printing it and then online and then we delivered it in person.

And so I allowed myself to get exhausted because I didn't wanna turn his motivation and his positive mood away. So we have slowed down on that. He did, here's a good story. He applied to the Lego store. And we dropped the resume off after he applied online, and they were so impressed. And so he got a call yesterday for an interview and he's in the basement.

They call his phone, and all of a sudden I hear him running upstairs and he's in my office. Mom, mom, Lego called me. Oops. Did you mute it? Oh, nope. Nope. There was the manager. Hello. It's like, oh, [00:26:00] buddy. Oh, talk. Talk to her. He's like, oh, sorry, sorry. That's my mom. I got my mom now and I'm like, oh shit. Well, there went there, went Lego.

Now there went Lego. And now I need to go in and say he'll have a job coach when he comes, which I did today. Oh, yep. Told her about the job coach. Okay. He did not feel great about the interview, but he did the interview and he did it alone and he was able to read her body language 'cause he didn't think that he did that well.

And so I just considered it a win that he did it and didn't feel good about it because that means that he's paying attention. 

Kristen: Yeah. And that he's motivated and he is trying different things. And I mean, I just, I'm so proud of him. I'm so proud. I know of the way he has. He shifted gears and he's a pretty remarkable young man.

Gwen: He is. And he's been in a pleasant mood since he's [00:27:00] been home, so that's the latest. Okay. Yep. It's been a rough turn, but I think I'm starting to feel a little bit more stability from myself. Mm-hmm. 'cause everybody else is fine. Yeah. 

Kristen: It's good to recognize Yeah. That a lot of times it's us. That isn't fine.

Gwen: Yeah, it is. And finding grounding. I would love to do an episode sometime on just this idea of grounding and how we find grounding. Because listening to a meditation that my spiritual director has done with me is what caused me to just calm myself. Yeah. And find some roots, I think, in the yard instead of laying 

Kristen: in the grass.

I think you said before when we were talking about. We don't know what to do. And you're right, we actually do know what to do. It's just hard to do it right. But we have developed, you and I have both developed some [00:28:00] practices that have helped us reground and reconnect with ourselves and carve out some emotional, spiritual, physical space for ourselves to do other work in the world and other play in the world.

That doesn't involve over-functioning for our kids, especially when they maybe don't need it or aren't ready for it. 

Gwen: I like that. Over-functioning for our kids. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's kind of my middle name. Yeah. For all of 'em. I do it for all of 'em. Yeah. I told my husband like, I'm having a hard time knowing how to love you, because love for me is advocating and doing.

What all the kids need. Mm-hmm. Because they're very unique humans and they have unique stories and they have needed a lot of advocating. And that's kind of what my world has become. And so I think my definition of like loving people has [00:29:00] become that. Right. I keep waiting to just have a long enough period of time where I don't feel like I have to overcompensate.

Yeah. I. So here we go. Here we go again. Here we go again. So I'm gonna be doing a lot more writing. And this is a good time to talk about that. 'cause I'm gonna be doing some writing on the, you don't wanna hug, write blog on our website. Mm-hmm. We're gonna be posting a lot of our top 10 lists because they're amazing and hilarious.

Mm-hmm. And really helpful. So we'll be putting some of those on our blog. And I'm just gonna do some side writing on there too. 'cause writing is a good way to soothe the soul. And Kristen's doing a lot of writing to finish up a. Little project. Do you wanna give our listeners just a tiny little intro to this project of yours?

Kristen: Yes, I'm, I've just finished my full draft of a novel and [00:30:00] my developmental editor's going to be. Taking a look over the next couple weeks. So that's a huge thing for me to have gotten to the end of it. It's very anxiety producing, but also exciting. And one of my main characters is a young autistic boy, 

Gwen: Mateo.

Mateo. Am I allowed to say his name? 

Kristen: Okay. 

Gwen: Mateo. 

Kristen: We love, we love Mateo. He's, we love him. He's an amazing, amazing young man. So that's been really fun to write. And there's pieces of all my kids in Mateo, I think I can see them and I think people who love our families can see that too. So yeah, that's been a big project.

It's not finished because I'll be doing edits and more of a final draft before I start querying agents, but that has been a pretty big project for me for the past couple years. Yeah, the heavy lifting is done. Yeah, the heavy lift. The heavy lift. I happen to really like revision. It's a fun place to be.

Creating new content is sometimes a little torturous [00:31:00] and hard and anxiety producing, but. Yeah, so I'm excited. So we're both moving into our writerly lives. 

Gwen: We are writerly lives. It is, I'm finishing my Master's this year, and so hopefully we'll have a finished story-based workbook for parents raising neurodivergent children.

I don't know if you know any, but that's what my project will be. So Kristen and I have hopes of having books published in the world in the next couple of years. We sure do. So that's exciting. Right. All right. And our kids are giving us plenty of content. Yeah, that's for sure. As are, as are we giving ourselves content?

Yes, and that's okay. Thanks for listening, y'all. Thanks. Friends, 

none: we know our moms are amazing, but they don't know everything. We think that you deserve to hear from the real experts. They're kids. Woo-hoo. We lead in nothing about us without us. [00:32:00] So here it is the last word. 

Gwen: Alright, we're doing the last word.

It's been a while, hasn't it, buddy? We are here with Ryland, really, and Kristen and I just recorded an episode on how disappointing it can be when things don't go as we planned, and we thought we would hear from you on how you felt about your experience with Beacon, where you disappointed? How are you feeling now?

Why don't we start with what do you feel really proud about? About your experience at Beacon? 

Ryland: You know, I was able to live independently well, 

Gwen: yeah, 

Ryland: yeah. 

Gwen: Talk more about that. How did that feel? 

Ryland: That I could do anything I wanted, I guess, and then also like have to clean my dorm and stuff sometimes. 

Gwen: Yeah. And you did pretty good with that, didn't you?

Ryland: Mm-hmm. 

Gwen: Yeah. Got to classes on time. Mm-hmm. Did you like being on your [00:33:00] own and independent? 

Ryland: Yeah. 

Gwen: What did you like about it? 

Ryland: I liked that I could do whatever I wanted whenever I wanted. 

Gwen: Yeah, it's generally pretty exciting for a young man your age, isn't it? 

Ryland: Mm-hmm. 

Gwen: Yeah. And what was harder about college than you thought it might be?

Ryland: The social part and the academic part were hard. 

Gwen: Yeah, they were hard. And do you think that maybe doing all of it at the same time was maybe a little bit more than what you were ready for? 

Ryland: Yeah, I would say so. 

Gwen: And can you share with us how you're feeling about being home and what's next? 

Ryland: What's next is I'm gonna try to get a job somewhere.

I had a interview with Laco today and I'll know how it went Really? So hopefully it went well and they called me back for the second interview. 

Gwen: Yeah. And if they don't, we [00:34:00] learned a lot, right? 

Ryland: Mm-hmm. 

Gwen: And how does it feel to be back home? 

Ryland: Good. Yeah. Good to see my friends. Yeah. Still nervous about driving.

Gwen: Yeah. So what would you say to young adults out there who are feeling disappointed that they're not able to do what they thought they would do, or they're having kind of a pivot? Would you have any advice or tips for them? 

Ryland: They're still more out there and the world for you, I guess. Yeah. Um, there's more opportunities than just one path.

Gwen: That's true. 

none: Y 

Ryland: Yeah. 

Gwen: Awesome. Thanks for your time, buddy. 

Ryland: Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Bye bye. Bye. 

Gwen: Thanks for joining us for this episode of You Don't Wanna Hug, right? We sure appreciate it. If you'd subscribe to our show and your favorite podcast app, and if you wanna win listener of the Month, you can rate and review the show preferably 

Kristen: with five stars.

If you'd [00:35:00] like to stay up on all our happenings, resources and bonus material, join our newsletter at you. Don't wanna hug.com. Remember, even the best 

Gwen: caretakers, make panic rooms out of their closets. No judgment here, friends. So shoulders back, double chins up. We are all in this together.